On today's Promoted Episode of Experiencing Data, I’m talking with Lucas Thelosen, CEO of Gravity and creator of Orion, an AI analyst transforming how data teams work. Lucas was head of PS for Looker, and eventually became Head of Product for Google’s Data and AI Cloud prior to starting his own data product company. We dig into how his team built Orion, the challenge of keeping AI accurate and trustworthy when doing analytical work, and how they’re thinking about the balance of human control with automation when their product acts as a force multiplier for human analysts.

In addition to talking about the product, we also talk about how Gravity arrived at specific enough use cases for this technology that a market would be willing to pay for, and how they’re thinking about pricing in today’s more “outcomes-based” environment. 

Incidentally, one thing I didn’t know when I first agreed to consider having Gravity and Lucas on my show was that Lucas has been a long-time proponent of data product management and operating with a product mindset. In this episode, he shares the “ah-hah” moment where things clicked for him around building data products in this manner. Lucas shares how pivotal this moment was for him, and how it helped accelerate his career from Looker to Google and now Gravity.

If you’re leading a data team, you’re a forward-thinking CDO, or you’re interested in commercializing your own analytics/AI product, my chat with Lucas should inspire you!  

Highlights/ Skip to:

Lucas’s breakthrough came when he embraced a data product management mindset (02:43) How Lucas thinks about Gravity as being the instrumentalists in an orchestra, conducted by the user (4:31) Finding product-market fit by solving for a common analytics pain point (8:11) Analytics product and dashboard adoption challenges: why dashboards die and thinking of analytics as changing the business gradually (22:25) What outcome-based pricing means for AI and analytics (32:08) The challenge of defining guardrails and ethics for AI-based analytics products [just in case somebody wants to “fudge the numbers”] (46:03) Lucas’ closing thoughts about what AI is unlocking for analysts and how to position your career for the future  (48:35)

Special Bonus for DPLC Community Members Are you a member of the Data Product Leadership Community? After our chat, I invited Lucas to come give a talk about his journey of moving from “data” to “product” and adopting a producty mindset for analytics and AI work. He was more than happy to oblige. Watch for this in late 2025/early 2026 on our monthly webinar and group discussion calendar.

Note: today’s episode is one of my rare Promoted Episodes. Please help support the show by visiting Gravity’s links below:

Quotes from Today’s Episode “The whole point of data and analytics is to help the business evolve. When your reports make people ask new questions, that’s a win. If the conversations today sound different than they did three months ago, it means you’ve done your job, you’ve helped move the business forward.” — Lucas 

“Accuracy is everything. The moment you lose trust, the business, the use case, it's all over. Earning that trust back takes a long time, so we made accuracy our number one design pillar from day one.” — Lucas 

“Language models have changed the game in terms of scale. Suddenly, we’re facing all these new kinds of problems, not just in AI, but in the old-school software sense too. Things like privacy, scalability, and figuring out who’s responsible.” — Brian

“Most people building analytics products have never been analysts, and that’s a huge disadvantage. If data doesn’t drive action, you’ve missed the mark. That’s why so many dashboards die quickly.” — Lucas

“Re: collecting feedback so you know if your UX is good: I generally agree that qualitative feedback is the best place to start, not analytics [on your analytics!] Especially in UX, analytics measure usage aspects of the product, not the subject human experience. Experience is a collection of feelings and perceptions about how something went.” — Brian

Links

Gravity: https://www.bygravity.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thelosen/ Email Lucas and team: [email protected]

Summary In this episode of the Data Engineering Podcast Lucas Thelosen and Drew Gilson from Gravity talk about their development of Orion, an autonomous data analyst that bridges the gap between data availability and business decision-making. Lucas and Drew share their backgrounds in data analytics and how their experiences have shaped their approach to leveraging AI for data analysis, emphasizing the potential of AI to democratize data insights and make sophisticated analysis accessible to companies of all sizes. They discuss the technical aspects of Orion, a multi-agent system designed to automate data analysis and provide actionable insights, highlighting the importance of integrating AI into existing workflows with accuracy and trustworthiness in mind. The conversation also explores how AI can free data analysts from routine tasks, enabling them to focus on strategic decision-making and stakeholder management, as they discuss the future of AI in data analytics and its transformative impact on businesses.

Announcements Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementData migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details.Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Lucas Thelosen and Drew Gilson about the engineering and impact of building an autonomous data analystInterview IntroductionHow did you get involved in the area of data management?Can you describe what Orion is and the story behind it?How do you envision the role of an agentic analyst in an organizational context?There have been several attempts at building LLM-powered data analysis, many of which are essentially a text-to-SQL interface. How have the capabilities and architectural patterns grown in the past ~2 years to enable a more capable system?One of the key success factors for a data analyst is their ability to translate business questions into technical representations. How can an autonomous AI-powered system understand the complex nuance of the business to build effective analyses?Many agentic approaches to analytics require a substantial investment in data architecture, documentation, and semantic models to be effective. What are the gradations of effectiveness for autonomous analytics for companies who are at different points on their journey to technical maturity?Beyond raw capability, there is also a significant need to invest in user experience design for an agentic analyst to be useful. What are the key interaction patterns that you have found to be helpful as you have developed your system?How does the introduction of a system like Orion shift the workload for data teams?Can you describe the overall system design and technical architecture of Orion?How has that changed as you gained further experience and understanding of the problem space?What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen Orion used?What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on Orion?When is Orion/agentic analytics the wrong choice?What do you have planned for the future of Orion?Contact Info LucasLinkedInDrewLinkedInParting Question From your perspective, what is the biggest gap in the tooling or technology for data management today?Closing Announcements Thank you for listening! Don't forget to check out our other shows. Podcast.init covers the Python language, its community, and the innovative ways it is being used. The AI Engineering Podcast is your guide to the fast-moving world of building AI systems.Visit the site to subscribe to the show, sign up for the mailing list, and read the show notes.If you've learned something or tried out a project from the show then tell us about it! Email [email protected] with your story.Links OrionLookerGravityVBA == Visual Basic for ApplicationsText-To-SQLOne-shotLookMLData GrainLLM As A JudgeGoogle Large Time Series ModelThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA