The Data Product Management In Action podcast, brought to you by executive producer Scott Hirleman, is a platform for data product management practitioners to share insights and experiences. In the 25th celebration minisode of Data Product Management in Action, hosts Frannie Helforoush and Nadiem von Heydebrand reflect on the progress of data product management in 2024. They highlight the growing clarity and recognition of the field, the rise of AI product management, and the importance of thoughtful integration without succumbing to overhype. The episode revisits key 2024 discussions on building data platforms, decision support products, and data mesh implementation. Looking forward to 2025, they foresee increased interest and adoption, emphasizing the field's potential for driving organizational value. Frannie and Nadiem express excitement for future episodes and community contributions. About our Host Nadiem von Heydebrand: Nadiem is CEO and Co-Founder at Mindfuel. In 2019, he combined his passion for data science with product management and is a thought leader for data product management today, aiming to prove true value contribution from data. Working as an expert in the data industry for over a decade now, he has seen hundreds of data science initiatives, built scaled data teams and enabled global organizations like Volkswagen, Munich Re, Allianz, Red Bull, Vorwerk to become data-driven. With Mindfuel “Delight”, a Data Product Management SaaS solution combined with professional services, he brought in experience from hands-on challenges like scaling out data platforms and architecture, implementing data mesh concepts or transforming AI performance into business performance to delight consumers all over the globe. Connect with Nadiem on LinkedIn

About our Host Frannie Helforoush: From coding to crafting customer-centric products, my journey began as a software engineer and evolved into a strategic product manager. With an innate curiosity for problem-solving, I fuse my expertise in data and product management to create impactful solutions as a data product manager now. With a background in both software engineering and product management, I seamlessly bridge the gap between the data and product worlds. I thrive on making data accessible and actionable for driving product innovation and  ensuring that product thinking is applied to every aspect of data management. Connect with Frannie on LinkedIn All views and opinions expressed are those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect their employers or anyone else.  Join the conversation on LinkedIn.  Apply to be a guest or nominate someone that you know.  Do you love what you're listening to? Please rate and review the podcast, and share it with fellow practitioners you know. Your support helps us reach more listeners and continue providing valuable insights!  

The Data Product Management In Action podcast, brought to you by Soda and executive producer Scott Hirleman, is a platform for data product management practitioners to share insights and experiences.  In Season 01, Episode 19, host Nadiem von Heydebrand interviews Pradeep Fernando, who leads the data and metadata management initiative at Swisscom. They explore key topics in data product management, including the definition and categorization of data products, the role of AI, prioritization strategies, and the application of product management principles. Pradeep shares valuable insights and experiences on successfully implementing data product management within organizations. About our host Nadiem von Heydebrand: Nadiem is the CEO and Co-Founder of Mindfuel. In 2019, he merged his passion for data science with product management, becoming a thought leader in data product management. Nadiem is dedicated to demonstrating the true value contribution of data. With over a decade of experience in the data industry, Nadiem leverages his expertise to scale data platforms, implement data mesh concepts, and transform AI performance into business performance, delighting consumers at global organizations that include Volkswagen, Munich Re, Allianz, Red Bull, and Vorwerk. Connect with Nadiem on LinkedIn. About our guest Pradeep Fernando: Pradeep is a seasoned data product leader with over 6 years of data product leadership experience and over 10 years of product management experience. He leads or is a key contributor to several company-wide data & analytics initiatives at Swisscom such as Data as a Product (Data Mesh), One Data Platform, Machine Learning (Factory), MetaData management, Self-service data & analytics, BI Tooling Strategy, Cloud Transformation, Big Data platforms,and Data warehousing. Previously, he was a product manager at both Swisscom's B2B and Innovation units both building new products and optimizing mature products (profitability) in the domains of enterprise mobile fleet management, cyber-and mobile device security.Pradeep is also passionate about and experienced in leading the development of data products and transforming IT delivery teams into empowered, agile product teams. And, he is always happy to engage in a conversation about lean product management or "heavier" topics such as humanity's future or our past. Connect with Pradeep on LinkedIn. All views and opinions expressed are those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect their employers or anyone else.  Join the conversation on LinkedIn.  Apply to be a guest or nominate someone that you know.  Do you love what you're listening to? Please rate and review the podcast, and share it with fellow practitioners you know. Your support helps us reach more listeners and continue providing valuable insights!              

The Data Product Management In Action podcast, brought to you by Soda and executive producer Scott Hirleman, is a platform for data product management practitioners to share insights and experiences. In Season 01, Episode 004, it's time to meet host Nadiem von Heydebrand, CEO and Co-founder at Mindfuel.  About our host Nadiem von Heydebrand: Nadiem is the CEO and Co-Founder of Mindfuel. In 2019, he merged his passion for data science with product management, becoming a thought leader in data product management. Nadiem is dedicated to demonstrating the true value contribution of data. With over a decade of experience in the data industry, Nadiem leverages his expertise to scale data platforms, implement data mesh concepts, and transform AI performance into business performance, delighting consumers at global organizations that include Volkswagen, Munich Re, Allianz, Red Bull, and Vorwerk. Connect with Nadiem on LinkedIn. All views and opinions expressed are those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect their employers or anyone else. Join the conversation on LinkedIn.

The Data Product Management In Action podcast, brought to you by Soda and executive producer Scott Hirleman, is a platform for data product management practitioners to share insights and experiences. In Season 01, Episode 005, host Nadiem von Heydebrand (CEO and Co-founder at Mindfuel) sits down with Clemence Chee (VP of Data and Analytics at Babbel). Clemence shares his journey and the unique challenges of data product managment, and the critical role of creating tangible business value and Return On Investment.  About our host Nadiem von Heydebrand: Nadiem is the CEO and Co-Founder of Mindfuel. In 2019, he merged his passion for data science with product management, becoming a thought leader in data product management. Nadiem is dedicated to demonstrating the true value contribution of data. With over a decade of experience in the data industry, Nadiem leverages his expertise to scale data platforms, implement data mesh concepts, and transform AI performance into business performance, delighting consumers at global organizations that include Volkswagen, Munich Re, Allianz, Red Bull, and Vorwerk. Connect with Nadiem on LinkedIn.

About our guest Clemence Chee: With over 10 years as a data and technology enthusiast, Clemence has extensive experience in Venture Development, Operations, and Business Intelligence. Prior to his current role at VP Data & Analytics at Babbel, he spent 7 years at HelloFresh as Global Senior Director of Data and has been fortunate to contribute to and build companies from ideation through pre-seed, Series A-D, IPO, and DAX40. Connect with Clemence on LinkedIn. All views and opinions expressed are those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect their employers or anyone else.  Join the conversation on LinkedIn  #dataproductmanagementwednesday

Today I’m continuing my conversation with Nadiem von Heydebrand, CEO of Mindfuel. In the conclusion of this special 2-part episode, Nadiem and I discuss the role of a Data Product Manager in depth. Nadiem reveals which fields data product managers are currently coming from, and how a new data product manager with a non-technical background can set themselves up for success in this new role. He also walks through his portfolio approach to data product management, and how to prioritize use cases when taking on a data product management role. Toward the end, Nadiem also shares personal examples of how he’s employed these strategies, why he feels it’s so important for engineers to be able to see and understand the impact of their work, and best practices around developing a data product team. 

Highlights / Skip to:

Brian introduces Nadiem and gives context for why the conversation with Nadiem led to a two-part episode (00:35) Nadiem summarizes his thoughts on data product management and adds context on which fields he sees data product managers currently coming from (01:46) Nadiem’s take on whether job listings for data product manager roles still have too many technical requirements (04:27) Why some non-technical people fail when they transition to a data product manager role and the ways Nadiem feels they can bolster their chances of success (07:09) Brian and Nadiem talk about their views on functional data product team models and the process for developing a data product as a team (10:11) When Nadiem feels it makes sense to hire a data product manager and adopt a portfolio view of your data products (16:22) Nadiem’s view on how to prioritize projects as a new data product manager (19:48) Nadiem shares a story of when he took on an interim role as a head of data and how he employed the portfolio strategies he recommends (24:54) How Nadiem evaluates perceived usability of a data product when picking use cases (27:28) Nadiem explains why understanding go-to-market strategy is so critical as a data product manager (30:00) Brian and Nadiem discuss the importance of today’s engineering teams understanding the value and impact of their work (32:09) How Nadiem and his team came up with the idea to develop a SaaS product for data product managers (34:40)

Quotes from Today’s Episode “So, data product management [...] is a combination of different capabilities [...]  [including] product management, design, data science, and machine learning. We covered this in viability, desirability, feasibility, and datability. So, these are four dimensions [that] you combine [...] together to become a data product manager.” — Nadiem von Heydebrand (02:34)

“There is no education for data product management today, there’s no university degree. ... So, there’s nobody out there—from my perspective—who really has all the four dimensions from day one. It’s more like an evolution: you’re coming from one of the [parallel business] domains or from one of the [parallel business] fields and then you extend your skill set over time.” — Nadiem von Heydebrand (03:04)

“If a product manager has very good communication skills and is able to break down the needs in a proper way or in a good understandable way to its tech lead, or its engineering lead or data science lead, then I think it works out super well. If this bridge is missing, then it becomes a little bit tricky because then the distance between the product manager and the development team is too far.” – Nadiem von Heydebrand (09:10)

“I think every data leader out there has an Excel spreadsheet or a list of prioritized use cases or the most relevant use cases for the business strategy… You can think about this list as a portfolio. You know, some of these use cases are super valuable; some of these use cases maybe will not work out, and you have to identify those which are bringing real return on investment when you put effort in there.” – Nadiem von Heydebrand (19:01)

“I’m not a magician for data product management. I just focused on a very strategic view on my portfolio and tried to identify those cases and those data products where I can believe I can easily develop them, I have a high degree of adoption with my lines of business, and I can truly measure the added revenue and the impact.” – Nadiem von Heydebrand (26:31)

“As a true data product manager, from my point of view, you are someone who is empathetic for the lines of businesses, to understand what their underlying needs and what the problems are. At the same time, you are a business person. You try to optimize the portfolio for your own needs, because you have business goals coming from your leadership team, from your head of data, or even from the person above, the CTO, CIO, even CEO. So, you want to make sure that your value contribution is always transparent, and visible, measurable, tangible.” – Nadiem von Heydebrand (29:20)

“If we look into classical product management, I mean, the product manager has to understand how to market and how to go to the market. And it’s this exactly the same situation with data product managers within your organization. You are as successful as your product performs in the market. This is how you measure yourself as a data product manager. This is how you define success for yourself.” – Nadiem von Heydebrand (30:58)

Links Mindfuel: https://mindfuel.ai/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiemvh/ Delight Software - the SAAS tool for data product managers to manage their portfolio of data products: https://delight.mindfuel.ai

The conversation with my next guest was going so deep and so well…it became a two part episode! Today I’m chatting with Nadiem von Heydebrand, CEO of Mindfuel. Nadiem’s career journey led him from data science to data product management, and in this first, we will focus on the skills of data product management (DPM), including design. In part 2, we jump more into Nadiem’s take on the role of the DPM. Nadiem gives actionable insights into the realities of data product management, from the challenges of actually being able to talk to your end users, to focusing on the problems and unarticulated needs of your users rather than solutions. Nadiem and I also discuss how data product managers oversee a portfolio of initiatives, and why it’s important to view that portfolio as a series of investments. Nadiem also emphasizes the value of having designers on a data team, and why he hopes we see more designers in the industry. 

Highlights/ Skip to:

Brian introduces Nadiem and his background going from data science to data product management (00:36) Nadiem gives not only his definition of a data product, but also his related definitions of ‘data as product,’ ‘data as information,’ and ‘data as a model’ products (02:19) Nadiem outlines the skill set and activities he finds most valuable in a data product manager (05:15) How a data organization typically functions and the challenges a data team faces to prove their value (11:20) Brian and Nadiem discuss the challenges and realities of being able to do discovery with the end users of data products (17:42) Nadiem outlines how a portfolio of data initiatives has a certain investment attached to it and why it’s important to generate a good result from those investments (21:30) Why Nadiem wants to see more designers in the data product space and the problems designers solve for data teams (25:37) Nadiem shares a story about a time when he wished he had a designer to convert the expressed needs of the  business into the true need of the customer (30:10) The value of solving for the unarticulated needs of your product users, and Nadiem shares how focusing on problems rather than solutions helped him (32:32) Nadiem shares how you can connect with him and find out more about his company, Mindfuel (36:07)

Quotes from Today’s Episode “The product mindset already says it quite well. When you look into classical product management, you have something called the viability, the desirability, the feasibility—so these are three very classic dimensions of product management—and the fourth dimension, we at Mindfuel define for ourselves and for applications are, is the datability.” — Nadiem von Heydebrand (06:51)

“We can only prove our [data team’s] value if we unlock business opportunities in their [clients’] lines of businesses. So, our value contribution is indirect. And measuring indirect value contribution is very difficult in organizations.” — Nadiem von Heydebrand (11:57)

“Whenever we think about data and analytics, we put a lot of investment and efforts in the delivery piece. I saw a study once where it said 3% of investments go into discovery and 90% of investments go into delivery and the rest is operations and a little bit overhead and all around. So, we have to balance and we have to do proper discovery to understand what problem do we want to solve.” — Nadiem von Heydebrand (13:59)

“The best initiatives I delivered in my career, and also now within Mindfuel, are the ones where we try to build an end responsibility from the lines of businesses, among the product managers, to PO, the product owner, and then the delivery team.” – Nadiem von Heydebrand (17:00)

“As a consultant, I typically think in solutions. And when we founded Mindfuel, my co-founder forced me to avoid talking about the solution for an entire ten months. So, in whatever meeting we were sitting, I was not allowed to talk about the solution, but only about the problem space.”  – Nadiem von Heydebrand (34:12)

“In scaled organizations, data product managers, they typically run a portfolio of data products, and each single product can be seen a little bit like from an investment point of view, this is where we putting our money in, so that’s the reason why we also have to prioritize the right use cases or product initiatives because typically we have limited resources, either it is investment money, people, resources or our time.” – Nadiem von Heydebrand (24:02)

“Unfortunately, we don’t see enough designers in data organizations yet. So, I would love to have more design people around me in the data organizations, not only from a delivery perspective, having people building amazing dashboards, but also, like, truly helping me in this kind of discovery space.” – Nadiem von Heydebrand (26:28)

Links Mindfuel: https://mindfuel.ai/ Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiemvh/ Mindfuel LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mindfuelai/