Thomas in't Veld, founder of Tasman Analytics, joined Yuliia and Dumke to discuss why data projects fail: teams obsess over tooling while ignoring proper data modeling and business alignment. Drawing from building analytics for 70-80 companies, Thomas explains why the best data model never changes unless the business changes, and how his team acts as "data therapists" forcing marketing and sales to agree on fundamental definitions. He shares his controversial take that data modeling sits more in analysis than engineering. Another hot take: analytics engineering is merging back into data engineering, and why showing off your DAG at meetups completely misses the point - business understanding is the critical differentiator, not your technology stack.

Jason Touleyrou, Data Engineering Manager at Corewell Health joined Yuliia to discuss why most organizations struggle with data governance. He argues that data teams should focus on building trust through flexible systems rather than rigid controls. Challenging traditional data quality approaches, Jason suggests starting with basic freshness checks and evolving governance gradually. Drawing from his experience across healthcare and marketing analytics, he shares practical strategies for implementing governance during migrations and measuring data team value beyond conventional metrics. Jason's linkedin page - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasontouleyrou/