Summary In this crossover episode, Max Beauchemin explores how multiplayer, multi‑agent engineering is transforming the way individuals and teams build data and AI systems. He digs into the shifting boundary between data and AI engineering, the rise of “context as code,” and how just‑in‑time retrieval via MCP and CLIs lets agents gather what they need without bloating context windows. Max shares hard‑won practices from going “AI‑first” for most tasks, where humans focus on orchestration and taste, and the new bottlenecks that appear — code review, QA, async coordination — when execution accelerates 2–10x. He also dives deep into Agor, his open‑source agent orchestration platform: a spatial, multiplayer workspace that manages Git worktrees and live dev environments, templatizes prompts by workflow zones, supports session forking and sub‑sessions, and exposes an internal MCP so agents can schedule, monitor, and even coordinate other agents.

Announcements Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementData teams everywhere face the same problem: they're forcing ML models, streaming data, and real-time processing through orchestration tools built for simple ETL. The result? Inflexible infrastructure that can't adapt to different workloads. That's why Cash App and Cisco rely on Prefect. Cash App's fraud detection team got what they needed - flexible compute options, isolated environments for custom packages, and seamless data exchange between workflows. Each model runs on the right infrastructure, whether that's high-memory machines or distributed compute. Orchestration is the foundation that determines whether your data team ships or struggles. ETL, ML model training, AI Engineering, Streaming - Prefect runs it all from ingestion to activation in one platform. Whoop and 1Password also trust Prefect for their data operations. If these industry leaders use Prefect for critical workflows, see what it can do for you at dataengineeringpodcast.com/prefect.Data migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details.Composable data infrastructure is great, until you spend all of your time gluing it together. Bruin is an open source framework, driven from the command line, that makes integration a breeze. Write Python and SQL to handle the business logic, and let Bruin handle the heavy lifting of data movement, lineage tracking, data quality monitoring, and governance enforcement. Bruin allows you to build end-to-end data workflows using AI, has connectors for hundreds of platforms, and helps data teams deliver faster. Teams that use Bruin need less engineering effort to process data and benefit from a fully integrated data platform. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/bruin today to get started. And for dbt Cloud customers, they'll give you $1,000 credit to migrate to Bruin Cloud.Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Maxime Beauchemin about the impact of multi-player multi-agent engineering on individual and team velocity for building better data systemsInterview IntroductionHow did you get involved in the area of data management?Can you start by giving an overview of the types of work that you are relying on AI development agents for?As you bring agents into the mix for software engineering, what are the bottlenecks that start to show up?In my own experience there are a finite number of agents that I can manage in parallel. How does Agor help to increase that limit?How does making multi-agent management a multi-player experience change the dynamics of how you apply agentic engineering workflows?Contact Info LinkedInLinks AgorApache AirflowApache SupersetPresetClaude CodeCodexPlaywright MCPTmuxGit WorktreesOpencode.aiGitHub CodespacesOnaThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA

Summary In this episode of the Data Engineering Podcast the inimitable Max Beauchemin talks about reusability in data pipelines. The conversation explores the "write everything twice" problem, where similar pipelines are built without code reuse, and discusses the challenges of managing different SQL dialects and relational databases. Max also touches on the evolving role of data engineers, drawing parallels with front-end engineering, and suggests that generative AI could facilitate knowledge capture and distribution in data engineering. He encourages the community to share reference implementations and templates to foster collaboration and innovation, and expresses hopes for a future where code reuse becomes more prevalent.

Announcements Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementData migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details.Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm joined again by Max Beauchemin to talk about the challenges of reusability in data pipelinesInterview IntroductionHow did you get involved in the area of data management?Can you start by sharing your current thesis on the opportunities and shortcomings of code and component reusability in the data context?What are some ways that you think about what constitutes a "component" in this context?The data ecosystem has arguably grown more varied and nuanced in recent years. At the same time, the number and maturity of tools has grown. What is your view on the current trend in productivity for data teams and practitioners?What do you see as the core impediments to building more reusable and general-purpose solutions in data engineering?How can we balance the actual needs of data consumers against their requests (whether well- or un-informed) to help increase our ability to better design our workflows for reuse?In data engineering there are two broad approaches; code-focused or SQL-focused pipelines. In principle one would think that code-focused environments would have better composability. What are you seeing as the realities in your personal experience and what you hear from other teams?When it comes to SQL dialects, dbt offers the option of Jinja macros, whereas SDF and SQLMesh offer automatic translation. There are also tools like PRQL and Malloy that aim to abstract away the underlying SQL. What are the tradeoffs across those options that help or hinder the portability of transformation logic?Which layers of the data stack/steps in the data journey do you see the greatest opportunity for improving the creation of more broadly usable abstractions/reusable elements?low/no code systems for code reuseimpact of LLMs on reusability/compositionimpact of background on industry practices (e.g. DBAs, sysadmins, analysts vs. SWE, etc.)polymorphic data models (e.g. activity schema)What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen teams address composability and reusability of data components?What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on data-oriented tools and utilities?What are your hopes and predictions for sharing of code and logic in the future of data engineering?Contact Info LinkedInParting Question From your perspective, what is the biggest gap in the tooling or technology for data management today?Closing Announcements Thank you for listening! Don't forget to check out our other shows. Podcast.init covers the Python language, its community, and the innovative ways it is being used. The AI Engineering Podcast is your guide to the fast-moving world of building AI systems.Visit the site to subscribe to the show, sign up for the mailing list, and read the show notes.If you've learned something or tried out a project from the show then tell us about it! Email [email protected] with your story.Links Max's Blog PostAirflowSupersetTableauLookerPowerBICohort AnalysisNextJSAirbytePodcast EpisodeFivetranPodcast EpisodeSegmentdbtSQLMeshPodcast EpisodeSparkLAMP StackPHPRelational AlgebraKnowledge GraphPython MarshmallowData Warehouse Lifecycle Toolkit (affiliate link)Entity Centric Data Modeling Blog PostAmplitudeOSACon presentationol-data-platform Tobias' team's data platform codeThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA

Summary The Data industry is changing rapidly, and one of the most active areas of growth is automation of data workflows. Taking cues from the DevOps movement of the past decade data professionals are orienting around the concept of DataOps. More than just a collection of tools, there are a number of organizational and conceptual changes that a proper DataOps approach depends on. In this episode Kevin Stumpf, CTO of Tecton, Maxime Beauchemin, CEO of Preset, and Lior Gavish, CTO of Monte Carlo, discuss the grand vision and present realities of DataOps. They explain how to think about your data systems in a holistic and maintainable fashion, the security challenges that threaten to derail your efforts, and the power of using metadata as the foundation of everything that you do. If you are wondering how to get control of your data platforms and bring all of your stakeholders onto the same page then this conversation is for you.

Announcements

Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data management When you’re ready to build your next pipeline, or want to test out the projects you hear about on the show, you’ll need somewhere to deploy it, so check out our friends at Linode. With their managed Kubernetes platform it’s now even easier to deploy and scale your workflows, or try out the latest Helm charts from tools like Pulsar and Pachyderm. With simple pricing, fast networking, object storage, and worldwide data centers, you’ve got everything you need to run a bulletproof data platform. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/linode today and get a $100 credit to try out a Kubernetes cluster of your own. And don’t forget to thank them for their continued support of this show! Modern Data teams are dealing with a lot of complexity in their data pipelines and analytical code. Monitoring data quality, tracing incidents, and testing changes can be daunting and often takes hours to days. Datafold helps Data teams gain visibility and confidence in the quality of their analytical data through data profiling, column-level lineage and intelligent anomaly detection. Datafold also helps automate regression testing of ETL code with its Data Diff feature that instantly shows how a change in ETL or BI code affects the produced data, both on a statistical level and down to individual rows and values. Datafold integrates with all major data warehouses as well as frameworks such as Airflow & dbt and seamlessly plugs into CI workflows. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today to start a 30-day trial of Datafold. Once you sign up and create an alert in Datafold for your company data, they will send you a cool water flask. RudderStack’s smart customer data pipeline is warehouse-first. It builds your customer data warehouse and your identity graph on your data warehouse, with support for Snowflake, Google BigQuery, Amazon Redshift, and more. Their SDKs and plugins make event streaming easy, and their integrations with cloud applications like Salesforce and ZenDesk help you go beyond event streaming. With RudderStack you can use all of your customer data to answer more difficult questions and then send those insights to your whole customer data stack. Sign up free at dataengineeringpodcast.com/rudder today. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I’m interviewing Max Beauchemin, Lior Gavish, and Kevin Stumpf about the real world challenges of embracing DataOps practices and systems, and how to keep things secure as you scale

Interview

Introduction How did you get involved in the area of data management? Before we get started, can you each give your definition of what "DataOps" means to you?

How does this differ from "business as usual" in the data industry? What are some of the things that DataOps isn’t (despite what marketers might say)?

What are the biggest difficulties that you have faced in going from concept to production with a workflow or system intended to power self-serve access to other membe

Summary The reason for collecting, cleaning, and organizing data is to make it usable by the organization. One of the most common and widely used methods of access is through a business intelligence dashboard. Superset is an open source option that has been gaining popularity due to its flexibility and extensible feature set. In this episode Maxime Beauchemin discusses how data engineers can use Superset to provide self service access to data and deliver analytics. He digs into how it integrates with your data stack, how you can extend it to fit your use case, and why open source systems are a good choice for your business intelligence. If you haven’t already tried out Superset then this conversation is well worth your time. Give it a listen and then take it for a test drive today.

Announcements

Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data management When you’re ready to build your next pipeline, or want to test out the projects you hear about on the show, you’ll need somewhere to deploy it, so check out our friends at Linode. With their managed Kubernetes platform it’s now even easier to deploy and scale your workflows, or try out the latest Helm charts from tools like Pulsar and Pachyderm. With simple pricing, fast networking, object storage, and worldwide data centers, you’ve got everything you need to run a bulletproof data platform. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/linode today and get a $100 credit to try out a Kubernetes cluster of your own. And don’t forget to thank them for their continued support of this show! Modern Data teams are dealing with a lot of complexity in their data pipelines and analytical code. Monitoring data quality, tracing incidents, and testing changes can be daunting and often takes hours to days. Datafold helps Data teams gain visibility and confidence in the quality of their analytical data through data profiling, column-level lineage and intelligent anomaly detection. Datafold also helps automate regression testing of ETL code with its Data Diff feature that instantly shows how a change in ETL or BI code affects the produced data, both on a statistical level and down to individual rows and values. Datafold integrates with all major data warehouses as well as frameworks such as Airflow & dbt and seamlessly plugs into CI workflows. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today to start a 30-day trial of Datafold. Once you sign up and create an alert in Datafold for your company data, they will send you a cool water flask. RudderStack’s smart customer data pipeline is warehouse-first. It builds your customer data warehouse and your identity graph on your data warehouse, with support for Snowflake, Google BigQuery, Amazon Redshift, and more. Their SDKs and plugins make event streaming easy, and their integrations with cloud applications like Salesforce and ZenDesk help you go beyond event streaming. With RudderStack you can use all of your customer data to answer more difficult questions and then send those insights to your whole customer data stack. Sign up free at dataengineeringpodcast.com/rudder today. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I’m interviewing Max Beauchemin about Superset, an open source platform for data exploration, dashboards, and business intelligence

Interview

Introduction How did you get involved in the area of data management? Can you start by describing what Superset is? Superset is becoming part of the reference architecture for a modern data stack. What are the factors that have contributed to its popularity over other tools such as Redash, Metabase, Looker, etc.? Where do dashboarding and exploration tools like Superset fit in the responsibilities and workflow of a data engineer? What are some of the challenges that Superset faces in being performant when working with large data sources?

Which data sources have you found to be the most challenging to work with?

What are some anti-patterns that users of Superset mig