Will the dream of a mythical database to handle all workloads (transactional + analytical) ever become a reality, or does it violate the laws of physics? This question sparked a hearty debate internally at dbt Labs, and Jon "Natty" Natkins joins Julia here to continue the conversation. Natty knows databases, and this episode will take you on a historical romp through the rise and fall of Hadoop, the transition to cloud data warehouses, and what's waiting for us next in database-land. For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com.  The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.

Ashley is a Principal Analytics Engineer at Hubspot, and has helped lead their implementation of dbt. Ashley makes unique connections in her writing and work. On her Substack, "syntax error at or near ❤️," Ashley might be found comparing growing companies to butterflies, or going deep on how to accommodate sensitive people in the workplace. In this conversation with Tristan & Julia, Ashley dives into the nuts and bolts of her trajectory pushing data innovation forward at Hubspot. For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com.  The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.

Summary Applications of data have grown well beyond the venerable business intelligence dashboards that organizations have relied on for decades. Now it is being used to power consumer facing services, influence organizational behaviors, and build sophisticated machine learning systems. Given this increased level of importance it has become necessary for everyone in the business to treat data as a product in the same way that software applications have driven the early 2000s. In this episode Brian McMillan shares his work on the book "Building Data Products" and how he is working to educate business users and data professionals about the combination of technical, economical, and business considerations that need to be blended for these projects to succeed.

Announcements

Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data management When you’re ready to build your next pipeline, or want to test out the projects you hear about on the show, you’ll need somewhere to deploy it, so check out our friends at Linode. With their managed Kubernetes platform it’s now even easier to deploy and scale your workflows, or try out the latest Helm charts from tools like Pulsar and Pachyderm. With simple pricing, fast networking, object storage, and worldwide data centers, you’ve got everything you need to run a bulletproof data platform. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/linode today and get a $100 credit to try out a Kubernetes cluster of your own. And don’t forget to thank them for their continued support of this show! Today’s episode is Sponsored by Prophecy.io – the low-code data engineering platform for the cloud. Prophecy provides an easy-to-use visual interface to design & deploy data pipelines on Apache Spark & Apache Airflow. Now all the data users can use software engineering best practices – git, tests and continuous deployment with a simple to use visual designer. How does it work? – You visually design the pipelines, and Prophecy generates clean Spark code with tests on git; then you visually schedule these pipelines on Airflow. You can observe your pipelines with built in metadata search and column level lineage. Finally, if you have existing workflows in AbInitio, Informatica or other ETL formats that you want to move to the cloud, you can import them automatically into Prophecy making them run productively on Spark. Create your free account today at dataengineeringpodcast.com/prophecy. StreamSets DataOps Platform is the world’s first single platform for building smart data pipelines across hybrid and multi-cloud architectures. Build, run, monitor and manage data pipelines confidently with an end-to-end data integration platform that’s built for constant change. Amp up your productivity with an easy-to-navigate interface and 100s of pre-built connectors. And, get pipelines and new hires up and running quickly with powerful, reusable components that work across batch and streaming. Once you’re up and running, your smart data pipelines are resilient to data drift. Those ongoing and unexpected changes in schema, semantics, and infrastructure. Finally, one single pane of glass for operating and monitoring all your data pipelines. The full transparency and control you desire for your data operations. Get started building pipelines in minutes for free at dataengineeringpodcast.com/streamsets. The first 10 listeners of the podcast that subscribe to StreamSets’ Professional Tier, receive 2 months free after their first month. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I’m interviewing Brian McMillan about building data products and his book to introduce the work of data analysts and engineers to non-programmers

Interview

Introduction How did you get involved in the area of data management? Can you describe what motivated you to write a book about the work of building data products?

Who is your target audience? What are the main goals that you are trying to achieve through the book?

What

In this very special episode, we'll be turning the spotlight on co-host Tristan Handy, the CEO & Co-founder of dbt Labs. In this AMA with Julia, you'll get to know more about Tristan as a human, as a writer, and as the CEO of dbt Labs helping to push the analytics engineering practice forward.  For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com. 

Your company has one definition for revenue across the organization, one definition of the customer, and one definition of sign-up. For people whose jobs are so defined by ensuring we're aligned, we can't seem to standardize on one definition for the Data Scientist. In this talk, Emilie Schario (Data Strategist-in-Residence at Amplify Partners and longtime dbt community member) proposes we lobby against the title Data Scientist, instead choosing some variation of the Core Four Data Roles: Data Analyst, Analytics Engineer, Data Engineer, and Machine Learning Engineer. Register to catch the rest of Coalesce, the Analytics Engineering Conference, at https://coalesce.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is brought to you by dbt Labs.

How is the data landscape evolving, what trends should you pay attention to and which should you ignore? In this panel, Julia Schottenstein (our fearless co-host and dbt Labs product manager) catches up with Sarah Catanzaro, Jennifer Li and Astasia Myers to dive into the trends playing out in our work. Register to catch the rest of Coalesce, the Analytics Engineering Conference, at https://coalesce.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is brought to you by dbt Labs.

In this talk, former podcast guest Benn Stancil walks through what he believe the next evolution of the modern data stack should look like - and more importantly, how those who use it should experience it. Register to catch the rest of Coalesce, the Analytics Engineering Conference, at https://coalesce.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is brought to you by dbt Labs.

Where does Snowflake go from here? What meta trends and technologies play into that vision? How does that impact the world of data analytics? Christian and Tristan have no shortage of opinions or ideas. This is your chance to hear some of them, live and unfiltered. Register to catch the rest of Coalesce, the Analytics Engineering Conference, at https://coalesce.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is brought to you by dbt Labs.

Reynold Xin is a technical co-founder and Chief Architect at Databricks. He's also a co-creator and the top contributor to the Apache Spark project. In this casual conversation with Drew Banin, co-founder and Chief Product Officer at dbt Labs, the two will be discussing the data infrastructure trends they find most interesting. Register to catch the rest of Coalesce, the Analytics Engineering Conference, at https://coalesce.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is brought to you by dbt Labs.

The modern data stack is the third generation of data analysis products to come to prominence since the 90's. The prior waves—data warehouse appliances and then Hadoop—were both big steps forwards but ultimately failed to live up to their initial promise. Is the modern data stack just another iteration in a long string of "trendy technologies" in data––waves that crash upon the shore but ultimately recede? Or is it somehow more permanent? Register to catch the rest of Coalesce, the Analytics Engineering Conference, at https://coalesce.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is brought to you by dbt Labs.

What is it like to build a data team for a company in the data space? This talk is centered around how dbt Labs is building their data team. We will cover how our team is structured, how we operate and interact with the greater organization, and how we set expectations and responsibilities that are helping us become a self-service organization. Register to catch the rest of Coalesce, the Analytics Engineering Conference, at https://coalesce.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is brought to you by dbt Labs.

As a product leader at companies like Heroku and Zendesk, DeVaris specialized in building infrastructure-grade products. Currently, as the CEO of Meroxa, he enables teams to build real-time data infrastructure with the same ease as we now take for granted in batch. In this romp of an episode, Tristan, Julia and DeVaris flow from his experience in tech mentorship, into the nuts and bolts of Change Data Capture (CDC), and how streaming data infrastructure can help data teams provide better end user experiences. For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com.  The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.

David is Sr. Director of Data at Lyst, and as leader of their analytics + data science teams he has followed the evolution of data roles closely over the past decade. David spends a lot of time thinking about career progression + data team structure, and in this conversation with Tristan + Julia they dive into the classic individual contributor vs manager conundrum, migrating between warehouses, and reactive vs proactive data workflows. For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com.  The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.

Julien has a unique history of building open frameworks that make data platforms interoperable. He's contributed in various ways to Apache Arrow, Apache Iceberg, Apache Parquet, and Marquez, and is currently leading OpenLineage, an open framework for data lineage collection and analysis. In this episode, Tristan & Julia dive into how open source projects grow to become standards, and why data lineage in particular is in need of an open standard. They also cover into some of the compelling use cases for this data lineage metadata, and where you might be able to deploy it in your work. For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com.  The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.

Summary The market for business intelligence has been going through an evolutionary shift in recent years. One of the driving forces for that change has been the rise of analytics engineering powered by dbt. Lightdash has fully embraced that shift by building an entire open source business intelligence framework that is powered by dbt models. In this episode Oliver Laslett describes why dashboards aren’t sufficient for business analytics, how Lightdash promotes the work that you are already doing in your data warehouse modeling with dbt, and how they are focusing on bridging the divide between data teams and business teams and the requirements that they have for data workflows.

Announcements

Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data management When you’re ready to build your next pipeline, or want to test out the projects you hear about on the show, you’ll need somewhere to deploy it, so check out our friends at Linode. With their managed Kubernetes platform it’s now even easier to deploy and scale your workflows, or try out the latest Helm charts from tools like Pulsar and Pachyderm. With simple pricing, fast networking, object storage, and worldwide data centers, you’ve got everything you need to run a bulletproof data platform. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/linode today and get a $100 credit to try out a Kubernetes cluster of your own. And don’t forget to thank them for their continued support of this show! Are you bored with writing scripts to move data into SaaS tools like Salesforce, Marketo, or Facebook Ads? Hightouch is the easiest way to sync data into the platforms that your business teams rely on. The data you’re looking for is already in your data warehouse and BI tools. Connect your warehouse to Hightouch, paste a SQL query, and use their visual mapper to specify how data should appear in your SaaS systems. No more scripts, just SQL. Supercharge your business teams with customer data using Hightouch for Reverse ETL today. Get started for free at dataengineeringpodcast.com/hightouch. Modern Data teams are dealing with a lot of complexity in their data pipelines and analytical code. Monitoring data quality, tracing incidents, and testing changes can be daunting and often takes hours to days. Datafold helps Data teams gain visibility and confidence in the quality of their analytical data through data profiling, column-level lineage and intelligent anomaly detection. Datafold also helps automate regression testing of ETL code with its Data Diff feature that instantly shows how a change in ETL or BI code affects the produced data, both on a statistical level and down to individual rows and values. Datafold integrates with all major data warehouses as well as frameworks such as Airflow & dbt and seamlessly plugs into CI workflows. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today to start a 30-day trial of Datafold. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I’m interviewing Oliver Laslett about Lightdash, an open source business intelligence system powered by your dbt models

Interview

Introduction How did you get involved in the area of data management? Can you describe what Lightdash is and the story behind it?

What are the main goals of the project? Who are the target users, and how has that profile informed your feature priorities?

Business intelligence is a market that has gone through several generational shifts, with products targeting numerous personas and purposes. What are the capabilities that make Lightdash stand out from the other options? Can you describe how Lightdash is architected?

How have the design and goals of the system changed or evolved since you first began working on it? What have been the most challenging engineering problems that you have dealt with?

How does the approach that you are taking with Lightdash compare to systems such as Transform and Metriql that aim to provide a dedicated metrics layer? Can you describe the workflow for som

Benn is Chief Analytics Officer and a Co-founder at Mode Analytics, but you may know him from his Substack newsletter (benn.substack.com), where each Friday he dives into a semi-controversial topic (recent examples: "Is BI Dead?" and "BI is Dead").  In this episode, Benn, Tristan & Julia finally hash out some of these debates IRL: what is the modern data stack, why is the metrics layer important, and what's the point of all of this? For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com.  The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.

Seth Rosen has broken data Twitter many times, and in his early-fatherhood sleep deprivation developed a wonderful Twitter persona as the battle-tested data analyst. IRL though Seth is a serious data practitioner, and as Founder at the data consultancy HashPath has helped dozens of companies get into the modern data stack + build public-facing data apps.  Now, as the founder of TopCoat, he's empowering analysts to build + publish those same public-facing data apps. In this episode, Tristan, Julia & Seth graciously dive into spicy debates around data mesh + "dashboard factories", and explore a future where data analysts become full-stack application developers. For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com.  The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.

Brittany Bennett is Data Director at Sunrise Movement, the youth climate movement that numbers tens of thousands of members throughout every US state.  Given how quickly our industry moves, developing junior data talent is hard, but Brittany's team at Sunrise makes it look easy. And that's no accident—because Sunrise hires for mission alignment rather than technical background, they dedicate significant resources to training + mentorship. In this conversation, Tristan, Julia & Brittany dive deep into the opportunity of developing junior data practitioners. For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.

Caitlin Colgrove is Co-founder & CTO at Hex, a data workspace that allows teams to collaborate in both SQL and Python to publish interactive data apps. In this conversation, Tristan, Julia and Caitlin dive into the possibilities that real-time collaborative notebooks unlock for data teams — what if our collaboration style looked more like Google Docs than a Git workflow? For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.

Erik Bernhardsson spent six years at Spotify, where he contributed to the first version of the music recommendation system. After a stint as CTO at Better.com, he's now working on building new infrastructure tooling for data teams. In this wide-ranging conversation with Tristan & Julia, Erik dives into the nuts and bolts of Spotify's recommendation algorithm, (paradoxically) why you should rarely need to use ML, and the fundamental infrastructure challenges that drag down the productivity of data teams. For full show notes and to read 6+ years of back issues of the podcast's companion newsletter, head to https://roundup.getdbt.com. The Analytics Engineering Podcast is sponsored by dbt Labs.