Data engineering is undergoing a fundamental shift. In this episode, I sit down with Nick Schrock, founder and CTO of Dagster, to discuss why he went from being an "AI moderate" to believing 90% of code will be written by AI. Being hands on also led to a massive pivot in Dagster’s roadmap and a new focus on managing and engineering context. We dive deep into why simply feeding data to LLMs isn't enough. Nick explains why real-time context tools (like MCPs) can become "token hogs" that lack precision and why the future belongs to "context pipelines": offline, batch-computed context that is governed, versioned, and treated like code. We also explore Compass, Dagster’s new collaborative agent that lives in Slack, bridging the gap between business stakeholders and data teams. If you’re wondering how your role as a data engineer will evolve in an agentic world, this conversation maps out the territory Dagster: dagster.io Nick Schrock on X: @schrockn

Summary In this episode of the Data Engineering Podcast, host Tobias Macey welcomes back Nick Schrock, CTO and founder of Dagster Labs, to discuss Compass - a Slack-native, agentic analytics system designed to keep data teams connected with business stakeholders. Nick shares his journey from initial skepticism to embracing agentic AI as model and application advancements made it practical for governed workflows, and explores how Compass redefines the relationship between data teams and stakeholders by shifting analysts into steward roles, capturing and governing context, and integrating with Slack where collaboration already happens. The conversation covers organizational observability through Compass's conversational system of record, cost control strategies, and the implications of agentic collaboration on Conway's Law, as well as what's next for Compass and Nick's optimistic views on AI-accelerated software engineering.

Announcements Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementData teams everywhere face the same problem: they're forcing ML models, streaming data, and real-time processing through orchestration tools built for simple ETL. The result? Inflexible infrastructure that can't adapt to different workloads. That's why Cash App and Cisco rely on Prefect. Cash App's fraud detection team got what they needed - flexible compute options, isolated environments for custom packages, and seamless data exchange between workflows. Each model runs on the right infrastructure, whether that's high-memory machines or distributed compute. Orchestration is the foundation that determines whether your data team ships or struggles. ETL, ML model training, AI Engineering, Streaming - Prefect runs it all from ingestion to activation in one platform. Whoop and 1Password also trust Prefect for their data operations. If these industry leaders use Prefect for critical workflows, see what it can do for you at dataengineeringpodcast.com/prefect.Data migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Nick Schrock about building an AI analyst that keeps data teams in the loopInterview IntroductionHow did you get involved in the area of data management?Can you describe what Compass is and the story behind it?context repository structurehow to keep it relevant/avoid sprawl/duplicationproviding guardrailshow does a tool like Compass help provide feedback/insights back to the data teams?preparing the data warehouse for effective introspection by the AILLM selectioncost managementcaching/materializing ad-hoc queriesWhy Slack and enterprise chat are important to b2b softwareHow AI is changing stakeholder relationshipsHow not to overpromise AI capabilities How does Compass relate to BI?How does Compass relate to Dagster and Data Infrastructure?What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen Compass used?What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on Compass?When is Compass the wrong choice?What do you have planned for the future of Compass?Contact Info LinkedInParting Question From your perspective, what is the biggest gap in the tooling or technology for data management today?Closing Announcements Thank you for listening! Don't forget to check out our other shows. Podcast.init covers the Python language, its community, and the innovative ways it is being used. The AI Engineering Podcast is your guide to the fast-moving world of building AI systems.Visit the site to subscribe to the show, sign up for the mailing list, and read the show notes.If you've learned something or tried out a project from the show then tell us about it! Email [email protected] with your story.Links DagsterDagster LabsDagster PlusDagster CompassChris Bergh DataOps EpisodeRise of Medium Code blog postContext EngineeringData StewardInformation ArchitectureConway's LawTemporal durable execution frameworkThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA

Summary In this episode of the Data Engineering Podcast we welcome back Nick Schrock, CTO and founder of Dagster Labs, to discuss the evolving landscape of data engineering in the age of AI. As AI begins to impact data platforms and the role of data engineers, Nick shares his insights on how it will ultimately enhance productivity and expand software engineering's scope. He delves into the current state of AI adoption, the importance of maintaining core data engineering principles, and the need for human oversight when leveraging AI tools effectively. Nick also introduces Dagster's new components feature, designed to modularize and standardize data transformation processes, making it easier for teams to collaborate and integrate AI into their workflows. Join in to explore the future of data engineering, the potential for AI to abstract away complexity, and the importance of open standards in preventing walled gardens in the tech industry.

Announcements Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementThis episode is brought to you by Coresignal, your go-to source for high-quality public web data to power best-in-class AI products. Instead of spending time collecting, cleaning, and enriching data in-house, use ready-made multi-source B2B data that can be smoothly integrated into your systems via APIs or as datasets. With over 3 billion data records from 15+ online sources, Coresignal delivers high-quality data on companies, employees, and jobs. It is powering decision-making for more than 700 companies across AI, investment, HR tech, sales tech, and market intelligence industries. A founding member of the Ethical Web Data Collection Initiative, Coresignal stands out not only for its data quality but also for its commitment to responsible data collection practices. Recognized as the top data provider by Datarade for two consecutive years, Coresignal is the go-to partner for those who need fresh, accurate, and ethically sourced B2B data at scale. Discover how Coresignal's data can enhance your AI platforms. Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/coresignal to start your free 14-day trial. Data migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details. This is a pharmaceutical Ad for Soda Data Quality. Do you suffer from chronic dashboard distrust? Are broken pipelines and silent schema changes wreaking havoc on your analytics? You may be experiencing symptoms of Undiagnosed Data Quality Syndrome — also known as UDQS. Ask your data team about Soda. With Soda Metrics Observability, you can track the health of your KPIs and metrics across the business — automatically detecting anomalies before your CEO does. It’s 70% more accurate than industry benchmarks, and the fastest in the category, analyzing 1.1 billion rows in just 64 seconds. And with Collaborative Data Contracts, engineers and business can finally agree on what “done” looks like — so you can stop fighting over column names, and start trusting your data again.Whether you’re a data engineer, analytics lead, or just someone who cries when a dashboard flatlines, Soda may be right for you. 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It starts June 9th.Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Nick Schrock about lowering the barrier to entry for data platform consumersInterview IntroductionHow did you get involved in the area of data management?Can you start by giving your summary of the impact that the tidal wave of AI has had on data platforms and data teams?For anyone who hasn't heard of Dagster, can you give a quick summary of the project?What are the notable changes in the Dagster project in the past year?What are the ecosystem pressures that have shaped the ways that you think about the features and trajectory of Dagster as a project/product/community?In your recent release you introduced "components", which is a substantial change in how you enable teams to collaborate on data problems. What was the motivating factor in that work and how does it change the ways that organizations engage with their data?tension between being flexible and extensible vs. opinionated and constrainedincreased dependency on orchestration with LLM use casesreducing the barrier to contribution for data platform/pipelinesbringing application engineers into the mixchallenges of meeting users/teams where they are (languages, platform investments, etc.)What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen teams applying the Components pattern?What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on the latest iterations of Dagster?When is Dagster the wrong choice?What do you have planned for the future of Dagster?Contact Info LinkedInParting Question From your perspective, what is the biggest gap in the tooling or technology for data management today?Links Dagster+ EpisodeDagster Components Slide DeckThe Rise Of Medium CodeLakehouse ArchitectureIcebergDagster ComponentsPydantic ModelsKubernetesDagster PipesRuby on RailsdbtSlingFivetranTemporalMCP == Model Context ProtocolThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA

Summary

Data systems are inherently complex and often require integration of multiple technologies. Orchestrators are centralized utilities that control the execution and sequencing of interdependent operations. This offers a single location for managing visibility and error handling so that data platform engineers can manage complexity. In this episode Nick Schrock, creator of Dagster, shares his perspective on the state of data orchestration technology and its application to help inform its implementation in your environment.

Announcements

Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data management Introducing RudderStack Profiles. RudderStack Profiles takes the SaaS guesswork and SQL grunt work out of building complete customer profiles so you can quickly ship actionable, enriched data to every downstream team. You specify the customer traits, then Profiles runs the joins and computations for you to create complete customer profiles. Get all of the details and try the new product today at dataengineeringpodcast.com/rudderstack This episode is brought to you by Datafold – a testing automation platform for data engineers that finds data quality issues before the code and data are deployed to production. Datafold leverages data-diffing to compare production and development environments and column-level lineage to show you the exact impact of every code change on data, metrics, and BI tools, keeping your team productive and stakeholders happy. Datafold integrates with dbt, the modern data stack, and seamlessly plugs in your data CI for team-wide and automated testing. If you are migrating to a modern data stack, Datafold can also help you automate data and code validation to speed up the migration. Learn more about Datafold by visiting dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold You shouldn't have to throw away the database to build with fast-changing data. You should be able to keep the familiarity of SQL and the proven architecture of cloud warehouses, but swap the decades-old batch computation model for an efficient incremental engine to get complex queries that are always up-to-date. With Materialize, you can! It’s the only true SQL streaming database built from the ground up to meet the needs of modern data products. Whether it’s real-time dashboarding and analytics, personalization and segmentation or automation and alerting, Materialize gives you the ability to work with fresh, correct, and scalable results — all in a familiar SQL interface. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/materialize today to get 2 weeks free! Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm welcoming back Nick Schrock to talk about the state of the ecosystem for data orchestration

Interview

Introduction How did you get involved in the area of data management? Can you start by defining what data orchestration is and how it differs from other types of orchestration systems? (e.g. container orchestration, generalized workflow orchestration, etc.) What are the misconceptions about the applications of/need for/cost to implement data orchestration?

How do those challenges of customer education change across roles/personas?

Because of the multi-faceted nature of data in an organization, how does that influence the capabilities and interfaces that are needed in an orchestration engine? You have been working on Dagster for five years now. How have the requirements/adoption/application for orchestrators changed in that time? One of the challenges for any orchestration engine is to balance the need for robust and extensible core capabilities with a rich suite of integrations to the broader data ecosystem. What are the factors that you have seen make the most influence in driving adoption of a given engine? What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen data orchestration implemented and/or used? What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working o

Summary The current stage of evolution in the data management ecosystem has resulted in domain and use case specific orchestration capabilities being incorporated into various tools. This complicates the work involved in making end-to-end workflows visible and integrated. Dagster has invested in bringing insights about external tools’ dependency graphs into one place through its "software defined assets" functionality. In this episode Nick Schrock discusses the importance of orchestration and a central location for managing data systems, the road to Dagster’s 1.0 release, and the new features coming with Dagster Cloud’s general availability.

Announcements

Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data management When you’re ready to build your next pipeline, or want to test out the projects you hear about on the show, you’ll need somewhere to deploy it, so check out our friends at Linode. With their new managed database service you can launch a production ready MySQL, Postgres, or MongoDB cluster in minutes, with automated backups, 40 Gbps connections from your application hosts, and high throughput SSDs. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/linode today and get a $100 credit to launch a database, create a Kubernetes cluster, or take advantage of all of their other services. And don’t forget to thank them for their continued support of this show! RudderStack helps you build a customer data platform on your warehouse or data lake. Instead of trapping data in a black box, they enable you to easily collect customer data from the entire stack and build an identity graph on your warehouse, giving you full visibility and control. Their SDKs make event streaming from any app or website easy, and their state-of-the-art reverse ETL pipelines enable you to send enriched data to any cloud tool. Sign up free… or just get the free t-shirt for being a listener of the Data Engineering Podcast at dataengineeringpodcast.com/rudder. Data teams are increasingly under pressure to deliver. According to a recent survey by Ascend.io, 95% in fact reported being at or over capacity. With 72% of data experts reporting demands on their team going up faster than they can hire, it’s no surprise they are increasingly turning to automation. In fact, while only 3.5% report having current investments in automation, 85% of data teams plan on investing in automation in the next 12 months. 85%!!! That’s where our friends at Ascend.io come in. The Ascend Data Automation Cloud provides a unified platform for data ingestion, transformation, orchestration, and observability. Ascend users love its declarative pipelines, powerful SDK, elegant UI, and extensible plug-in architecture, as well as its support for Python, SQL, Scala, and Java. Ascend automates workloads on Snowflake, Databricks, BigQuery, and open source Spark, and can be deployed in AWS, Azure, or GCP. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/ascend and sign up for a free trial. If you’re a data engineering podcast listener, you get credits worth $5,000 when you become a customer. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I’m interviewing Nick Schrock about software defined assets and improving the developer experience for data orchestration with Dagster

Interview

Introduction How did you get involved in the area of data management? What are the notable updates in Dagster since the last time we spoke? (November, 2021) One of the core concepts that you introduced and then stabilized in recent releases is the "software defined asset" (SDA). How have your users reacted to this capability?

What are the notable outcomes in development and product practices that you have seen as a result?

What are the changes to the interfaces and internals of Dagster that were necessary to support SDA? How did the API design shift from the initial implementation once the community started providing feedback? You’re releasing the stable 1.0 version of Dagster as part of something call

Summary The technology for scaling storage and processing of data has gone through massive evolution over the past decade, leaving us with the ability to work with massive datasets at the cost of massive complexity. Nick Schrock created the Dagster framework to help tame that complexity and scale the organizational capacity for working with data. In this episode he shares the journey that he and his team at Elementl have taken to understand the state of the ecosystem and how they can provide a foundational layer for a holistic data platform.

Announcements

Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data management When you’re ready to build your next pipeline, or want to test out the projects you hear about on the show, you’ll need somewhere to deploy it, so check out our friends at Linode. With their managed Kubernetes platform and blazing fast NVMe storage there’s nothing slowing you down. With simple pricing, fast networking, object storage, and worldwide data centers, you’ve got everything you need to run a bulletproof data platform. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/linode today and get a $100 credit to try out a Kubernetes cluster of your own. And don’t forget to thank them for their continued support of this show! Struggling with broken pipelines? Stale dashboards? Missing data? If this resonates with you, you’re not alone. Data engineers struggling with unreliable data need look no further than Monte Carlo, the world’s first end-to-end, fully automated Data Observability Platform! In the same way that application performance monitoring ensures reliable software and keeps application downtime at bay, Monte Carlo solves the costly problem of broken data pipelines. Monte Carlo monitors and alerts for data issues across your data warehouses, data lakes, ETL, and business intelligence, reducing time to detection and resolution from weeks or days to just minutes. Start trusting your data with Monte Carlo today! Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/montecarlo to learn more. The first 10 people to request a personalized product tour will receive an exclusive Monte Carlo Swag box. Are you bored with writing scripts to move data into SaaS tools like Salesforce, Marketo, or Facebook Ads? Hightouch is the easiest way to sync data into the platforms that your business teams rely on. The data you’re looking for is already in your data warehouse and BI tools. Connect your warehouse to Hightouch, paste a SQL query, and use their visual mapper to specify how data should appear in your SaaS systems. No more scripts, just SQL. Supercharge your business teams with customer data using Hightouch for Reverse ETL today. Get started for free at dataengineeringpodcast.com/hightouch. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I’m interviewing Nick Schrock about the evolution of Dagster and its path forward

Interview

Introduction How did you get involved in the area of data management? Can you describe what Dagster is and the story behind it? How has the project and community changed/evolved since we last spoke 2 years ago?

How has the experience of the past 2 years clarified the challenges and opportunities that exist in the data ecosystem?

What do you see as the foundational vs transient complexities that are germane to the industry?

One of the emerging ideas in Dagster is the "software defined data asset" as the central entity in the framework. How has that shifted the way that engineers approach pipeline design and composition?

How did that conceptual shift inform the accompanying refactor of the core principles in the framework? (jobs, ops, graphs)

One of the powerful elements of the Dagster framework is the investment in rich metadata as a foundational principle. What are the opportunities for integrating and extending that context throughout the rest of an organizations data platform?

What do you see as the potential for efforts such as OpenLineage and OpenMetadata to allow for other compone

Summary Despite the fact that businesses have relied on useful and accurate data to succeed for decades now, the state of the art for obtaining and maintaining that information still leaves much to be desired. In an effort to create a better abstraction for building data applications Nick Schrock created Dagster. In this episode he explains his motivation for creating a product for data management, how the programming model simplifies the work of building testable and maintainable pipelines, and his vision for the future of data programming. If you are building dataflows then Dagster is definitely worth exploring.

Announcements

Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data management When you’re ready to build your next pipeline, or want to test out the projects you hear about on the show, you’ll need somewhere to deploy it, so check out our friends at Linode. With 200Gbit private networking, scalable shared block storage, and a 40Gbit public network, you’ve got everything you need to run a fast, reliable, and bullet-proof data platform. If you need global distribution, they’ve got that covered too with world-wide datacenters including new ones in Toronto and Mumbai. And for your machine learning workloads, they just announced dedicated CPU instances. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/linode today to get a $20 credit and launch a new server in under a minute. And don’t forget to thank them for their continued support of this show! This week’s episode is also sponsored by Datacoral, an AWS-native, serverless, data infrastructure that installs in your VPC. Datacoral helps data engineers build and manage the flow of data pipelines without having to manage any infrastructure, meaning you can spend your time invested in data transformations and business needs, rather than pipeline maintenance. Raghu Murthy, founder and CEO of Datacoral built data infrastructures at Yahoo! and Facebook, scaling from terabytes to petabytes of analytic data. He started Datacoral with the goal to make SQL the universal data programming language. Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datacoral today to find out more. You listen to this show to learn and stay up to date with what’s happening in databases, streaming platforms, big data, and everything else you need to know about modern data management. For even more opportunities to meet, listen, and learn from your peers you don’t want to miss out on this year’s conference season. We have partnered with organizations such as O’Reilly Media, Dataversity, Corinium Global Intelligence, Alluxio, and Data Council. Upcoming events include the combined events of the Data Architecture Summit and Graphorum, the Data Orchestration Summit, and Data Council in NYC. Go to dataengineeringpodcast.com/conferences to learn more about these and other events, and take advantage of our partner discounts to save money when you register today. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I’m interviewing Nick Schrock about Dagster, an open source system for building modern data applications

Interview

Introduction How did you get involved in the area of data management? Can you start by explaining what Dagster is and the origin story for the project? In the tagline for Dagster you describe it as "a system for building modern data applications". There are a lot of contending terms that one might use in this context, such as ETL, data pipelines, etc. Can you describe your thinking as to what the term "data application" means, and the types of use cases that Dagster is well suited for? Can you talk through how Dagster is architected and some of the ways that it has evolved since you first began working on it?

What do you see as the current industry trends that are leading us away from full stack frameworks such as Airflow and Oozie for ETL and into an abstracted programming environment that is composable with different execution contexts? What are some of the initial assumptions that yo